I'm pretty sure someone this weekend blogged about how in the 1st edition DMG section on minis Gygax makes it clear that 3 figures should be able to fit abreast in a 10' corridor. I have been considering using one square = 3.33 feet for a new tactical display I've been toying with building but I usually use 2 figures per rank in 10' wide corridors. But if someone really wanted to try for 3 I wouldn't object. It would just be more cramped and possibly more fumble prone. (You know what I need? A chart full of non-combat fumbles. Torches dropped for no good reason. Stumbles leading to noses broken on flagstones. Spilled backpacks. That sort of thing.)
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that to use the AD&D rules as written to determine the number of people in a rank you also have to look in the Players Handbook. I'm thinking of the Weapon vs. Armor Type chart here and the column labeled "Space Required". You can only fit one character wielding a Bec De Corbin, Footman’s Flail or Two-Handed Sword in a 10' wide space or two characters using Bardiches, Halberds, Lucern Hammers or Morning Stars.
Sure, you could squeeze a couple of spearmen next to that maniac with the two handed sword, but you're going to feel like a chump if he accidentally whacks you with that big clumsy blade.
I should point out how this situation is just one of many rules where half the info you need is in the DMG and the other half is in the PHB, like how both books have spell sections or to roll to-hit you need the DMG but to roll damage you need the PHB. Or how the crappy psionics rules in the back of the Players Handbook requires the crappy psionics rules in the DMG to function crappily.
Also worth noting here are the marching order rules in Empire of the Petal Throne: three characters abreast is standard just like in the DMG; four may squeeze in if none of them are fighters; only two may fight side-by-side if one wields a two-handed weapon, except for a two-handed sword. If you wield a two-handed sword you take up the whole dang rank by yourself.
A Return to the Stars
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After a veeeeerrrryyyy long, and mostly unplanned, hiatus, Stuart and I got
together to play more Stargrave in recent days. It was good! It was also a
bit ...
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If you wield a two-handed sword you take up the whole dang rank by yourself.
ReplyDeleteThere's the fumble chart you really need: "What happens to the guy next to the barbarian with the two handed sword"
In the adventure "In search of the Unknown" it's said three PC can fit in a 10' corridor if they use weapons like daggers and hand axes. I just read it yesterday :D
ReplyDeleteTry some practical experiments. Stand a bunch of guys between two tapes ten feet apart with bits of wood the lengths of various weapons and see how long it takes to hit each other when waving them about. Two people with cut and thrust weapons like long swords seems fair, three if using spears.
ReplyDeleteI always just use the rule that 2 can fight in a 10' corridor. We never pay attention to two-handed swords - or daggers for that matter. Maybe I should start paying attention!
ReplyDeleteCarlos - interesting. I never noticed that.
In the copy of the adventure I own, it's said at page 4 (in the section "Preparation for the use of this module"):
Delete"[...] In a standard 10' wide corridor, the most common arrangement is two adventurers side by side in each rank, although three characters could operate together in a single rank if all of their weapons were short and easily wielded (daggers or small axes, for intstance)."
I should point out I made superior psionics rules in the first edition style that aren't spread out everywhere.
ReplyDeletepsionics
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ReplyDeletehttp://randinfoom.blogspot.com/2012/01/xbox-720.html
Jeff, when would you apply non-combat fumbles? Combat fumbles are easily applied when someone rolls a 1, or fails to hit when doing some sort of complicated move, but generally people are not rolling during non-combat, and they are not usually doing things which easily suggest the sort of complication to introduce.
ReplyDeleteMaybe just randomly, like wandering monsters? Make a roll every x turns [modified by various factors like terrain, lighting], and on a successful roll, consult chart for a complication.... hmm.
A stab at a non-combat fumble table.
Delete"I'm pretty sure someone this weekend blogged about how in the 1st edition DMG section on minis Gygax makes it clear that 3 figures should be able to fit abreast in a 10' corridor. "
ReplyDeleteYou're probably thinking of this:
http://blog.binkystick.com/2012/01/30/fighting-shoulder-to-shoulder/
I've had the pleasure of LARPing indoors with blunt weapons. You can fit a hell of a lot of people in a 10' space. I've seen a doorway filled with polearms as people tried to fight their way through. Of course no one was really being killed or set on fire so they were trying maneuvers people who'd like to live might pass on.
ReplyDeleteArmed with thrusting weapons I'd allow 3 or 4 in a 10' wide rank, there just wouldn't be any positive AC adjustments to Ac for dexterity.
Two handed swords are also pretty darned good thrusting weapons as they do have a point.
Here's mine:
ReplyDeletehttp://coffeeanalog.blogspot.com/2012/01/random-table-for-jeff.html
Note: I did this before I read the one from Lasgunpacker, so if there are similarities, it's just a coincidence.
My rambling reply got too long so I just put it here:
ReplyDeletehttp://1d30.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/figures-per-rank-in-a-10-hallway/
I mentioned it in passing a day or two ago, when talking about the 15 minute work day.
ReplyDeleteJust found a photo from Dr Holmes' book Fantasy Role Playing Games which seems to support this.
ReplyDeleteI should point out how this situation is just one of many rules where half the info you need is in the DMG and the other half is in the PHB
ReplyDeleteI assume this is first edition. I could never figure out what the AD&D2 DMG was for.
It's for magic items. :-)
DeleteI think I have a non-combat fumble table. I never used it. Too brutal. Although I should get because one character is trying to dual-wield flails. I think I have a random table that can determine how many people fit through a doorway too and a chart for occupying space.
ReplyDeleteGeneric, for people who don't need a lot of rules:
ReplyDelete1) Torch dropped for no good reason.
2) Stumble and break nose on flagstone.
3) Nasty spores infect the rations.
4) Hip-deep in guano.
5) One of your flasks or bottles breaks and leaks through.
6) A boot dies. Got a replacement?
7) You drop it. Loud, loud clang. Like a dinner bell.
8) Cloak gets tangled in someone's weapon.
9) Spilled backpack.
10) As you stagger, your coins roll out in every direction.
11) Mishandled torch sets someone's Typical Fantasy Hair/Beard on fire.
12) You stumble over an imaginary unseen deceased turtle. Have a good laugh, dust yourself off, and get back out there. Lucky thing this system doesn't have lethal fumbles, eh?
I think I'd use the Generic Fumble table as an entry on a wandering monster chart. I always have several non-monster events on my wandering monster tables.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the fabulous world of the metric-system!
ReplyDeleteAlways was afraid to ask:
How many (dry) ounces does a liquid ounce of water weigh?
I always figured that it was two abreast when exploring a 10' wide corridor, but you can wedge three abreast during combat if you use thrusting weapons like spears (creating a shield wall as seen in 300). I thought I read it in the 1E DMG, but I'm not sure.
ReplyDelete"I'm pretty sure someone this weekend blogged about how in the 1st edition DMG section on minis Gygax makes it clear that 3 figures should be able to fit abreast in a 10' corridor..."
ReplyDeleteI bet you're thinking of my good buddy Paul who wrote that the day prior to your post here (after a run of module A1): http://blog.binkystick.com/2012/01/30/fighting-shoulder-to-shoulder/
And I always like to remind folks that the rule first popped up in OD&D, Vol-3 (underlined on p. 12), with the details on space-per-weapon initially appearing in the Sup-I Greyhawk expansion, p. 15.