The top bar represents the historical rulers of Wessex (and later England) from the first known Wessex lord, Cerdic, who ruled starting in 519AD. Each color change represents a change in dynasty.
The middle bar represents the rule of the Elf Queen, assuming that elves have approximate 10 times the average lifespan of humans and their rulers reign for about 10 times as long. Each color change represents a new queen.
The bottom bar represents dwarf kings, at roughly 4 times the longevity/reign of human rulers. The names not swiped from The Hobbit are inspired by Snow White: Gloin the Dreamer is Sleepy, Bibur the Reticent is Bashful and Dubin the Foolish equals Dopey.
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So, I like where this is headed, because I think it goes to weird places. (Like: "I've been king for 300 years and this is the third freaking time I've had to rebuild this stupid granary. I'm tired of it! No more granaries!")
ReplyDeleteBut also, a large number of medieval rulers died from a surfeit of substances, including daggers to the back or poison poured into the ear. Elven reigns probably would be similarly shortened--maybe much, much shorter since the Elves would still have to cope with all kinds of crazy external factors that don't depend on longevity. If King Elfy has reigned for 200 years, just think how many crises and scandals would occur in that time to sink his reign and deprive him of all legitimacy.
Personally, I tend to think of Elves as anarchists rather than monarchists, just because at that lifespan, several of the premises of hierarchical authority become questionable.
--James
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ReplyDeleteOuch. No wonder elves would seem aloof and mysterious to humans.
ReplyDelete"Hmmm, you're not King Cerdic? Are you his son? His grandson? You're his great grandson? Really? But it was only fifty years ago that we met to agree the no more logging treaty! You've never heard of it? My dear human king, why do you think we're at war? What do you mean no one told you about any logging-treaty? Don't you humans keep records? You thought we were a myth! A myth! But I was here just fifty years ago! Surely you don't expect me to have to stop by and visit every ten years or so just to remind you of your treaty obligations. Why, that's more frequently than I tour my own lands!
Yeah, there are interesting things that could come out of a tenfold increase in lifespan.
ReplyDeleteI read a story once where human lifespan had been extended to the point that people would forget whole periods of their life. (To an even greater extent than we already do!) The main character was cursed with a good memory and was constantly dealing with people he knew who no longer knew him.
Maybe elfin monarchs simply get bored with the job after a while and move on to other things. Their reigns might even be shorter than human monarchs.
I've read that actuarial tables suggest that after 600 years, the chance of accidental death reaches 100%. (I assume that means based on modern life, which is much less dangerous than the middle ages!) So elves would probably be super-cautious too. Agoraphobes etc. FWIW.
ReplyDelete@mikemonaco:
ReplyDeleteIf you follow that line of thinking TOO much further, you end up with elves that look like White Wolf's wampires.
I've been thinking about Mr. Monaco's concern. I think the solution might be that most elves live most of their lives in Fairy Land, where time passes at a slower rate and/or just works differently.
ReplyDelete@Jeff:
ReplyDeleteThere's also the bit where elves are just prone to a slower-paced life, avoid warfare when possible, and stick mostly to themselves, not to mention their superior grace (which would help to prevent most accidents that would prove to be fatal). Then we've got the question of disease and poison--whether they affect elves, and whether they would take up residence near creatures that could poison them, and so forth.
I mean, it's not hard to imagine the elvish lifestyle coming about as a result of trying to avoid social customs or habits that contribute to unnecessary shortening of life.
Rather than trying to fudge things around and make up reasons for elves to be less vulnerable to mischance than humans, it may be better to just go with it. Every elf monarch's reign ends in assassination, or food poisoning, or a bizarre hunting accident involving a horned rabbit. Taking the throne shortens your expected lifespan by a factor of ten. Elvish high nobles perform elaborate dances of intrigue and etiquette to avoid being first in line for the hot seat when the time comes to pass on the crown.
ReplyDeleteOf course, that would be assuming that elves fear death greatly. Depending on culture, it may be that the honor of ruling outweighs other considerations.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what becomes of the human drive to attain "immortality" through their children or great works? With a longer life would come a longer perspective, maybe these things become less important? More?
Since D&D elves are described as somewhat flighty and frivolous, I'm guessing less. That would also help explain why, if elves are actual quasi-mortal beings rather than fairies, humans dominate the world and not elves, despite their head start and natural advantages.
ReplyDeleteAnother consideration of long life spans is that elvish society would probably be gerontocratic. A 600 year old elf has all the advantages of wisdom and experience, but still with the body of a spry 120 year-old. More importantly, the oldest elves have all the good positions locked up and, barring accidents, are unlikely to vacate them any time soon. A young elf's best opportunity for social climbing would probably be in the army, where he or she is at least assured of a fairly steady rate of empty boots to fill. That could actually make the military leadership the most liberal part of the top strata of elvish society, in contrast to a deeply conservative nobility.
And meanwhile you've got the monarchy, which, if it does shorten the life of an elf so considerably, might be foisted off onto a succession of middle-aged elves so that the ancient patriarchs and matriarchs can continue to rule their families uninterrupted - those families, after eight generations or so, making up a major part of the population, not just a small noble family like in human societies.
The elvish Nth-generation descendents, like human commoners, have no say in the running of government, but as a lineal descendant of their matriarch they probably have a more direct line of petition than a human commoner does to his or her lord. Conversely, the family leader has a filial duty towards all of his or her descendents, and is not simply exploiting their labours like human aristocracy does. We never see an elvish underclass, everyone seems fairly well off - this explains why. Also, every elf is descended from a high patriarch and is therefore technically nobility, which fits with their snooty attitude.
Worries about lives 'wasted' by accidental death is why the elevs have such advanced defensive technologies like magic and the elven armors and cloaks and such. Loosing an artisan of 400+ years experience is a tragedy they wish to avoid when possible.
ReplyDeleteI've always had issues with the supposed length of life for Player Character Elves.
ReplyDeleteThanks for highlighting and concretizing a lot of the issues just when -- in the time-honored tradition of world-building -- I'm creating my own version of elves.
There's been a thought that's come to me time and again, and honestly this does rather relate...
ReplyDeleteOne of the other things often mentioned when bringing up elven longevity is the low birth rate among elves. It's a widely accepted posit that elves only have a few births in a community every decade, which is why humans push them slowly off the map. Every elf that dies is a great loss, while humans? They'll have another dozen born before the month is out.
However, the growing discussion about elven longevity in regards to monarchical reigns and family groups brought something realistic to mind.. Well, back to mind, as I've thought of this before.
The common view that anyone under 100 isn't considered an adult, or at least over 50, depending on which timeline for lifespan is used. This kind of viewpoint is supported by the presence of 500+ year old patriarchs who, in their time, waited a long time for dead men's pointy shoes to be vacated.
We can watch in our own mundane societies how as the lifespan increases, we generally tend to push back what we consider the 'mature' age. A hundred years ago, males as young as twelve would still be expected to stop school to work on the family farms. These days, many people are not considered adults until they're almost halfway through their twenties.
Societal patterns can be easily inferred by just those existing historical elements.
But, to bring this back to elven birth rates, the important question must be asked. How much of the accepted 'adult' age of an elf is set by biology, (which would show that any creature needing over fifty years to fend for itself would not survive as a race long enough to form a culture) as compared to sociology?
My PC races have the same Child, Young, and Adult ages, but those with Longevity have higher numbers for Old and Elder age categories. This means an elf and a humanand a halfling born at the same time will hit adulthood at the same time, but the Elves age VERY gracefully compared to humans.
ReplyDeleteThe span between rulers in a given dynasty shouldn't be based on longevity. It should be based on maturation time.
ReplyDeleteImagine Elves live an average of 1000 years, and that they tend to have their first kids at 50 years of age. When old King Faldorgil dies at 1000 years old, his firstborn child and heir, the newly minted Queen Anduilas, is already 950 years old. She only reigns for 50 years before she too hits 1000 and dies, leaving behind *her* child, the new Queen Lethenia. Lethenia was 900 when Faldorgil died, was 950 when Anduilas died, and she herself only has 50 years until she too hits 1000 and kicks off.