Incidentally, I love the dwarf in the skirt and the elf archer in that picture, but I have no idea what is going on with the spear dude in the gold-and-grey. That outfit just ain't doing anything for me.
A Return to the Stars
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After a veeeeerrrryyyy long, and mostly unplanned, hiatus, Stuart and I got
together to play more Stargrave in recent days. It was good! It was also a
bit ...
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Posts
Those are hobgoblins!
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were orcs, but it's been a long time since I've taken a deep look at that. I need to grab that again.
ReplyDeleteI love the costumes, including the guy in gold. These'd lend themselves very well to comic books.
ReplyDeleteAs Patrick suggests, the humanoids do resemble some D&D depictions of hobgoblins.
Hobgoblins
ReplyDeleteJudging by the helmets & the orange skin (fur?) I'd say hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were hobgoblins - because of their armour/helmets as much as anything.
ReplyDeleteThey have piggy snouts, which suggests orc. Though they're kinda tall, which suggests hobgoblins. But back in the day, I decided they were goblins because the one at the top getting felled by a single arrow to the chest, which I felt seemed like a pretty "HD: 1-1" thing to do.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteMy immediate reaction was either goblins or kobolds. If I ever thought about it consciously back when I played it, I can' remember. I'm just digging into my instincts for the answer.
ReplyDeleteAnother vote for "hobgoblin."
ReplyDeleteI never thought it was anything but Hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteI think they're wearing the same sort of armor as the hobgoblin illustration in the Monster Manual--but I'm going from sketchy memory. But anybody could wear that armor, no?
ReplyDeleteThe skin color says hobgoblin to me, though.
My vote is for Hobgoblins as well... although I guess they could be Orcs. That just reminds me that I don't think there needs to be Goblins, Hobgoblins AND Orcs. ;-)
ReplyDeleteOrange skin, samurai knock-off crescent moon helms - them's Hobs.
ReplyDeleteThat outfit just ain't doing anything for me.
Hoplites in tights: pre-figuring the campiness of "300" by decades
Based on armor and skin-color, cross-referenced against the "Gold Box" SSI games and my foggy memories of that module I'll have to also say "Hobgoblins".
ReplyDeleteGotta go with Orcs - Oink! Oink!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins, though I sometimes wavered toward orcs do to the porcine features.
ReplyDeleteLike others have said: orange+samurai helmet = hobgoblins.
ReplyDeletesign me up for hobgoblin.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins!
ReplyDeleteThey're hobgoblins. It's not just the orange skin color, but the blue noses, which I'm pretty sure are mentioned in the original Monster Manual description. I don't recall how their description reads in B/X Basic.
ReplyDeleteBack in the day, I guessed hobgoblins for the aforementioned color and samurai armor - but that was because I had already seen and read the Monster Manual. Now I'm not so sure.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins, of course.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins, but I could also see why they might be orcs.
ReplyDeletehhhhhobbbgobbbllliinnnsssss!!!!! what else?
ReplyDeleteThe 2nd Edition monster manual states that hobgoblins have redish skin and blue noses. It is for that reason I must say: hobgoblins
ReplyDeleteOrcs.
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were hobgobblers too!
ReplyDeleteBased on the armour, I'd say hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteThe DM monster, of course. (In the guise of hobgoblins.)
ReplyDeletehobgoblins
ReplyDeleteand I never really noticed anyone in that picture besides the archer. The dwarf in the kilt does rock!
hobgoblins
ReplyDeleteYeah, I have to go with hobgoblins, too. The general AD&D Monster Manual hobgoblin appearance vibe is another mixed signal that caused us to mix B/X and AD&D in our youth.
ReplyDeleteThinking about this some more... Hobgoblins were depicted pretty differently from that by the time they got to B5.
ReplyDeleteI've always assumed they were orcs. Never gave it any thought either. Pretty convinced they are Hobgobs now. But, why pig noses?
ReplyDeleteThey’re part hobgoblin and part orc to keep the players guessing.
ReplyDelete(Nah. They’re hobgoblins.)
I say orcs, but I can see the hobgoblin argument too.
ReplyDelete(Purposely not looking at earlier comments here)
ReplyDeleteI've always assumed they were orcs. On account of the piggy snouts. Though the coloring makes me think hobgoblin.
I always thought they were hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins, judging by the arms and armor...
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins...who started the bluenose thing for Hobgoblins?
ReplyDeleteOrcs.
ReplyDeleteI always just assumed they were hobgoblins. But now, because of the verification word, I'm quite convinced that they're...
ReplyDeletehories!
100% Hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins.
ReplyDelete+1 for Hobgoblins
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins with snouts = Hoggoblins, duh.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say that it's never even entered my brain to question that they were anything but hobgoblins, but now it feels like I'm just going along with the crowd. So I'm going to say that they're devil swine just to be difficult.
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were orcs but the hobgoblin argument is persuasive.
ReplyDeleteMe thinks they be Orcs!
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins
ReplyDeleteOrcs because of the pignose, and despite all the good reasons others have cited to think hobgoblins. I think this shows that my imagination only has room for one man-sized humanoid destined for extermination, and orcs are it.
ReplyDelete- Tavis
Orcs, says I. The piggy snouts are dispositive. Though I may not be open to hobgoblins because they never existed in any version of the module I ever played. They were instead replaced/reskinned by the DM as a different monster: gamma-world influenced "warangatangs".
ReplyDeleteI'd call them hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteKralorelan Trollkin. So there.
ReplyDeleteHalf-orcs with a hobgoblin parent, obviously!
ReplyDeleteNah, they're hobs.
Armor plus skin tone has me thinking hobgoblins but they look a little wiry. Maybe some goblins that raided the Hobo's armory?
ReplyDeleteThey are hobgoblin the red skin gives it away.
ReplyDeleteMy immediate reaction was orcs. And I undersdtand the reasoning that leads to them being identified as hobgoblins, but they still look like orcs to me.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins, though passable for any other iteration of goblin or orc.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was hobgoblin.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I'm part of the hobgoblin coalition.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins. The samurai-style helmets are a dead giveaway. Compare them to the pictures in the 1E Monster Manual.
ReplyDeleteThis picture was the reason that I've always envisioned hobgoblins as simian beastmen. Which is also why I thought Beastman from Masters of the Univers was a big ass hobgoblin.
ReplyDeleteI accidently typed "bobgoblins" just then, which gives me an idea for a monster...
Open question: anyone have the Moldvay Basic description of the hobgoblin handy? I can't recall how close it is to what's noted in the Monster Manual (which, to me, would not be a reliable source for a Basic module).
ReplyDeleteAlso, the verification word is "pedstm" which is clearly the sentient lilac bush on the right that's about to wrap around the elf's ankles.
I'll join the minority and vote orcs as well. Never thought otherwise.
ReplyDelete(Could be totally off-base here, but didn't Games Workshop start the whole "orcs have green skin" thing?)
Hobgolins, all the way. :-)
ReplyDeleteThey've always been porcine orcs to me.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins--look at the noses! The Hobs in the MM have snouty noses as well--not as snouty as these maybe, but shucks.
ReplyDeleteMoldvay simply describes hobgoblins as bigger meaner cousins of goblins, as I recall.
For the longest time, my go-to mental image of hobgoblins came from the D&D Coloring Album--the artist took the suggestion of them looking like mandrills and ran with it.
Hobgoblins. Those aren't pig snouts, they're blue noses as D&D hobgoblins are said to have (I forget where it was noted...AD&D 1st Edition Monster Manual I think.). At least that's my take.
ReplyDeletePig-faces = orcs
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins seems extremely obvious (and probably wrong), but that was my first thought.
ReplyDeleteOrcs -- that door-shaped shield is a dead giveaway
ReplyDeleteI'm going with Flumphs! @_o
ReplyDeleteOrcs! I don't care what species they stole their armor from, pig nose = Orc.
ReplyDeleteThey are obviously orcs disguised as hobgoblins engaged in a false-flag mission as a part of Operation Bree-yark.
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were orcs, but the hobgoblin argument has persuaded me.
ReplyDelete"A hobgoblin king and his bodyguard of 1 - 4 all fight as ogres. Hobgoblins are big, powerful goblinoids, and their morale (such as a saving throw against fear) is always a + 1."
ReplyDeleteIs the entirety of what Holmes has to say about Hobgobs. Could not find any descriptive text in B2 after quick glance through. Holmes is also equally berift of any description of orcs.
The MM must have been one hot product, Not only providing descriptions but pictures!
Blue noses = hobgoblins
ReplyDeleteI always thought they were Orcs, since this was Basic and the MM was not part of it, nor did I actually have a copy (at that time)
ReplyDeleteTo me they were always hobgoblins, based on their armor, skin color and such.
ReplyDeleteI've thought them to be orcs.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was orcs (pig noses), but second was hobgoblins (samurai armor, and I have an idea I've seen hobgoblins drawn in samurai armor, plus heavier armor says militaristic hobgoblins to me, tho that may be a more modern idea). I have no firm opinion on how to settle the question.
ReplyDeleteChinamen.
ReplyDeleteThe blue noses betray that they are hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteharbgarbloins or I'm a bullywug!
ReplyDeleteThe adventurers are fighting Hobgoblins. The samurai-like armor and helms are similar to the ones depicted that the Hobgoblins are wearing in the 1st Edition Monster Manual.
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins. That short guy with a skirt and sword was a dwarf? He always looked like a short squat human to me.
ReplyDeleteTwo humans and an elf.
ReplyDeletehobgoblins
ReplyDelete"They are obviously orcs disguised as hobgoblins engaged in a false-flag mission as a part of Operation Bree-yark."
ReplyDeleteHeh!
Hobgoblins.
ReplyDeleteI had this same "debate" in 6th grade. We had an orc camp and a hobgoblin camp... We went to the MM, and they matched the description of hobgoblins.
30 years and it is still fun to talk about!
With the "oriental" accouterments, I believe that they are hobgoblins. Something in the back of my mind leads me to believe that, but I can't say why... Aha! That's what they look like in the MM! Zounds!
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins
ReplyDeletehobgoblins
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDouble post, sorta.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of the Badguy culture of Samurai Hobgoblins vs. the Goodguy culture of Samurai Rakasta would be a an entertaining fantasy setting for me, if those two races and humans were the most dominant in that setting.
I may have to dig some Ruins and Ronins this way.
I got B2 with the Moldvay Basic set. Now, I can see that the beasts in the picture are clearly supposed to be 1e Monster Manual hobgoblins. But I'm not sure you could come to that conclusion based on the Moldvay set...
ReplyDelete"Hobgoblins are bigger, meaner relatives of goblins." B36
"Goblins are a small incredibly ugly human-like race. Their skin is pale earthy color, such as chalky tan or livid gray. Their eyes are red, and glow when there is little light, somewhat like rat's eyes." B36
"Orcs are ugly human-like creatures who look like a combination of animal and man." B40
Based on what little description of the creatures there is in the Moldvay book, I could see how someone could come down on the side of "orc."
One should note, however, that the combat seems to be occurring in daylight, and according to the Moldvay rules, hobgoblins are the only one of the three candidates that suffer no penalty in sunlight.
Although their gear is highly suggestive of Hobgoblins, I think they are Orcs. Their pig-like, bluish noses are pure Orc and the Orcs of 1E AD&D are actually quite similar to Hobgoblins based on their picture in the Monster Manual (and their alignment).
ReplyDeleteWhile this module was written for BD&D, we all know that the two versions of D&D were heavily cross-pollenated in this era so I consider the Monster Manual imagery influential even on a BD&D module.
I've never seen a humanoid other then Koblolds & hobgoblins painted red so that must be a hobgoblin. Also man that is a LOT of replies!
ReplyDeleteHobgoblins without a doubt.
ReplyDelete