Today the whole family and my good buddy Pat participated in the nationwide demonstration of solidarity with the workers of Wisconsin. I'd guess there were about 150 to 200 people at the event with maybe a dozen counter-demonstrators across the street.
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awesome
ReplyDeleteI wish I had been able to go to the demonstration in Detroit, but we were visiting someone in hospice care today... even if I had made it to the march, I doubt I would have been very energetic. But the treatment that the Wisconsin workers have gotten, and the dirty tricks and lies employed against them have me really worried for the future.
ReplyDeleteWord verification is 'krashify.' "Irresponsible financial speculation and financial irregularities by Lehman Brothers did krashify many people's retirement."
Thank you! As a Wisconsin resident and soon to be public employee, it has been wonderful knowing that not just out-of-state friends but even random bloggers who I happen to follow are supporting us.
ReplyDeleteCheers.
ReplyDelete: )
Cops included!
ReplyDeleteOld school!
ReplyDeleteHell yeah!
ReplyDeleteWe rallied in front of the Alamo today in support of the WI workers. Standing with our union brethren, solidarity forever and all that.
I was with the family at the protest in Chicago. Up with the workers, down with the Koch brothers!
ReplyDeleteI was in Springfield too!
ReplyDeleteSolidarity??! Please!!
ReplyDeleteUnions today benefit the leaders at the top with little regard for the members. They protect the lowest common denominator at the expense of those in the union who do a truly good job. Many of us "workers" get along just fine without a union, tyvm.
See here for even FDR's and a former AFL-CIO president's thoughts on public unions.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/02/18/the-first-blow-against-public-employees/fdr-warned-us-about-public-sector-unions
What about the taxpayers? We have had enough.
Zed, I don't claim unions are perfect and last I checked union members are taxpayers too.
ReplyDeleteAs a conservative Republican, I'm siding with the voters and the tax payers on this one.
ReplyDeleteTo paraphrase the words of Obama: We won, so we trump you on that. Now get in the back seat while we clean up the mess you created.
Couldn't disagree with you more Jeff, and horribly disappointed that the "Gameblog" is now a "Politicsbog".
ReplyDelete@Jeff Rients:
ReplyDeleteGreat to see you supporting another worthy cause. It's sad how many people don't realize the benefits of unions and their contributions to a decent state of living for so many past and present. But it seems quite a few people don't care for the idea of worker protections and/or consider them unnecessary in this day and age.
@Joseph:
I'd hardly consider this a politics blog. Mentions of stuff like this is infrequent at best. Unless this is too soon after he came out as a Mason! ;-)
Couldn't disagree with you more Jeff, and horribly disappointed that the "Gameblog" is now a "Politicsbog".
ReplyDeleteSomebody always says something like that the once a year or so I express my politics on my own ding dang blog.
Jeff, I don't claim corporations are perfect and last I checked corporations are taxpayers too.
ReplyDeleteSee what I did there?
No comment about the link regarding public unions? It's OK to be able to vote in the person who will be across from you at the bargaining table? Nothing wrong there, right? It's just the taxpayers, just some of them benefit over the others...
We have a problem in this country. It's an addiction to OPM (other people's money). Government is too big and does too much. You can only take so much money from the wealth producer's before they decide it isn't worth it. See California's exodus of companies and citizens. With your state of IL's recent major tax hikes expect the same soon. Government can't create wealth, only an environment for it to thrive.
Governments (Democrat or Republican) can't keep running up deficits like we are doing.
Special interests - corporations and unions, etc- have too much say in government.
Time to get back to basics in government and true fiscal responsibility. Citizen politicians, not Career politicians. As a fellow taxpayer we should agree on that but, I doubt we do.
There should be an internet rule that you can't comment on a post with a level of argument the other guy has obviously already thought of but just hasn't bothered to post on his page.
ReplyDelete3 random conservatives: Jeff's obviously on the other side on this one. Either suck it up and wait for him to post about cyborg sea urchin land mines again or accept that if you want a point-for-point analysis of the cons of your points on this topic, you may not get one, despite the fact that there is one.
If you think your position is so unassailable that everyone smart has to agree with you, take it somewhere that's about politics.
Jeff said: this is what I did today.
If you want to say: Oh yeah? I gave 900 million dollars and a private yacht to C-Pac today! go ahead. If you want to argue the right and wrong, do everyone the favor of realizing that's not a thing that's gonna get settled in a few paragraphs on a D&D blog.
Jeff, I don't claim corporations are perfect and last I checked corporations are taxpayers too.
ReplyDeleteSee what I did there?
What you did there was bring in another topic. Nobody had been talking about corporations. And I'm not so certain that they are taxpayers. It seems that a lot of the biggest corporations shop around for the state or country that offers the best tax options and pretend to be based there. So even if you're comment was on topic, I'm in no hurry to grant the point.
I apologize earlier for not offering a lengthy comment on the article you so nicely linked to. I was on my Kindle then and I tire quickly of the little keyboard. That's why I use twitter mostly when I'm on it. Maybe public unions made no sense in 1955-1959, but I believe the non-public unions were a lot stronger then so it would have matter less. And I think the first couple of commenters do an interesting job of showing the slant of the piece. But hey, if you want to talk about rolling the clock back to 1955, we really ought to start with a good look at income tax rates back then.
Government is too big and does too much.
Yes. So let's start by less blowing up people in foreign countries. That's a pretty dang expensive budget item.
Time to get back to basics in government and true fiscal responsibility. Citizen politicians, not Career politicians. As a fellow taxpayer we should agree on that but, I doubt we do.
I'm trying to figure out what I wrote that gave you the impression that I'm for career politicians or fiscal irresponsibility. Fiscal responsibility, in my opinion, would include insisting corporations pay their share of taxes, financial institutions would be regulate to avoid bailouts and fewer costly foreign military adventures.
I'm a political conservative, and a cop, and a member of a union.
ReplyDeleteWhen you agree to all the monetary givebacks and the goverment still wants to bust the union (that's what this is about right now), that isn't democracy.
Props to Jeff for demonstrating.
@Zak S
ReplyDeletetake it somewhere that's about politics?
It is Jeff's blog. Today he posted about politics. So I responded about politics. He then responded to me and so on. If he doesn't want to continue that is fine.
A *facepalm* from you on what I can discuss here means diddly.
Next time I should just drone on support with you and the others in the cult of personality?
Power to the workers.
ReplyDelete@Jeff
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments.
I never said I was for corporate welfare either. A simple, fair tax system eliminates ways to hide revenue AND prevents the government from picking winners and losers. Taxes on corporations are just a cost of doing business and that will be passed on to the consumer. In the end you will just kill more jobs. Is Socialism the ultimate savior?
As for corporate bailouts? Don't. If there is no penalty for failure then why should anyone worry about the consequences of their actions?
Foreign policy disagreements aside, looking at the military budget is fine but doesn't solve the problem.
However, we need to step up and look at the elephant in the room - spending on govt entitlement programs.
@zed
ReplyDeleteDiscuss what you like, Zed, I just think it's pretty obvious it won't end decisively here.
If it does, congratulations, you and Jeff will have accomplished and internet first.
@Jeff:
ReplyDeleteI must have missed this in my first reading of your response:
"But hey, if you want to talk about rolling the clock back to 1955, we really ought to start with a good look at income tax rates back then."
The top tax rate for 1955 is 91% on income over $400,000. So there is a limit on how much someone should be allowed to make? Anything over that belongs almost solely to the government to do with as they please?
@Zak S:
ReplyDeleteFor what's worth I agree with you. I don't expect to "win". It is not about being an asshat as so much of the internet is tbh.
I just wanted a discussion to gain perspective. Whether its discussing the OSR or politics sometimes it helps to get out of just listening to those who agree with you. Maybe I'm wasting my time and Jeff's, or maybe not...
Dude. New banner image.
ReplyDeleteWisconsin is a liberal state... that just elected a Republican governor and majorities in the House and Senate.
ReplyDeleteIn democracy, elections have consequences.
So if you want to talk about democracy, then why not mention those Wisconsin state senators that are "supporting the workers" by deliberately thwarting the democratic process?
By fleeing the state, they are preventing the will of the people from being carried out.
It's about democracy? Lie. Worker's rights? Lie.
It is awesome to see people get out and do something, regardless of which way they lean.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it would be nice to have people in government that focused on fixing stuff rather than waging petty political wars.
Jeff, I salute you.
ReplyDeleteZed wrote: "We have a problem in this country"
ReplyDeleteThe only problem we have is reduced tax revenue caused by the real estate bubble popping and the resulting deep recession.
The Federal deficits are caused by Bush's tax cuts, entitlements (especially the Medicare drug benefit, which was enacted with no attempt to pay for it) and the two wars.
Wisconsin doesn't even *have* a budget problem apart from the one Walker created with his knuckle-headed tax cuts for his rich cronies.
And if unions do nothing for the regular-joe union worker, why are Republicans so excited to hamstring unions? Republicans want to screw the regular-joe union workers, cut their jobs, cut their pay, and give them crappy healthcare. The unions prevent that from happening. *Sounds like the regular-joe common workers get LOTS of benefits*.
Unions are like vaccines. When lots of people are vaccinated, the disease it protects you from seems to go away, and people forget how harmful the disease was and how important the vaccine is. So they stop vaccinating, and then the disease comes back, and you get babies dying from formerly-rare diseases like whooping cough.
Take the unions away, and public employees - and by extension the public who rely on them - will get *screwed* to benefit rich people. Because that's how the system works, always, rich people working hardest to screw everyone else.
@Bree Yark: "Wisconsin is a liberal state... that just elected a Republican governor and majorities in the House and Senate."
ReplyDeleteWalker didn't actually mention what he's trying to do during his campaign. So the public didn't actually vote on it.
Just like they didn't vote for the part of the Walker's budget which would let him "sell" (really give away) publicly-owned energy plants to cronies in a no-bid process. (No doubt the new owners would then turn around and gouge the state and public for the energy generated, so the state would get it coming and going.)
What no-bid sales of state assets have to do with "fiscal responsibility", I have no idea.
The key point is that Walker's move with the unions has nothing to do with the budget. It's entirely about hamstringing the Democrats in future elections.
Walker doesn't actually care about spending. He probably assumes that when the business cycle eventually turns around, state tax revenue will rise again, and the budget problems will be fixed, which he will claim as being the result of his meddling.
No blogger should ever have to feel like they can't express themselves on their own blog. It's your vehicle to do with as you wish. It's admirable that you've been courageous enough to share more personal details, even if others disapprove.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the reasons I've always appreciated your blog Jeff, and why I'll keep coming back.
Kudos to Mike Mearls for saying something sensible even though the topic is politics on the internet!
ReplyDeleteCan someone maybe provide a link to some news for those of us across the pond who have no idea of what's happening in Wisconsin?
God has been known to use traffic lights to give a subtle nod of encouragement to one side or the other in these petty squabbles.
ReplyDeleteJon H, I didn't see you condemn the Democrat Wisconsin state senators for thwarting the democratic process by fleeing the state...
ReplyDeleteThis is how it works in this democracy. We elect Representatives to represent us. We elect Governors to govern us.
When the people we elect to represent and govern us go against the will of the people, such as the Democrats did with Obamacare, we vote them out by the boatload in the next election.
But these unions aren't about Democracy, which is why they have a history of violence and intimidation.
"Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members.
Democracy? Nay. They don't want you to even have a secret ballot! This is about greed and corruption, which is why they turn violent when people threaten their gravy train.
"a history of violence and intimidation."
ReplyDeleteThis describes every political endeavor. Ever. Our first President was a warlord, as I recall.
So basically people who support unions and benefit from them should stop doing so for the greater good because it's the altruistic thing to do? Yeah, that will definitely happen. So many elements of our society are just dying to give up the things that they have.
If people are going to shit on Jeff for his stance, they should probably develop a better argument.
There is a special circle of Hell reserved for those who feel it adds moral weight to their arguments if they refer to themselves as "taxpayers".
ReplyDeleteAnd I thought no one would comment! That's awesome Jeff, hope you had a good time.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to be one of these magical people who don't pay taxes, and who vex the "taxpayers" so.
ReplyDeleteEvery item I buy is assessed a sales tax, gas a usage tax, and I pay into FICA. And if you're a fan of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, they report three-quarters of taxpayers pay more payroll taxes than they pay income taxes.
My only solace is offsetting my federal taxes with education costs, which greatly exceed my tax burden.
I welcome any advice on how to not become a taxpayer.
Sad that instead of trying to improve their own lot, some spend their time advocating for the improverishment of others. Soon we can all live it poverty, and won't that be delightful.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't bother trying to tell me that the guv'ment and taxes are keeping you down. By any measure, Americans are the lowest taxed citizens in the developed world.
I'm not a fan of unions. I agree that people should make a decent wage. The problem is that unions have driven up the costs on companies with ever increasing wages and benefits that these companies eventually just ship those jobs overseas. We as Americans cannot compete in this global economy. Can you make ends meet on a salary of $200/month? I can't. But the worker in China can. The Unions have strangled and taxed companies enough that its becomes less desirable to keep doing business here in the US. Companies exist to make money and a profit. The workers benefit if the company can make a profit by continuing to have jobs. Nowhere is it written that if a company makes ALOT of profit that the workers should be entitled to a piece of that pie. Once a company becomes non-profitable, it looks for ways to change that. Layoffs or moving overseas where costs are cheaper. We lose when the workers in China get our jobs.
ReplyDeleteI really wonder how all those products made in China are going to sell here in the USA when nobody will have jobs here who can buy them?
People need to stop being so butthurt when their favorite bloggers post about things they actually feel/think. This is Jeff's gameblog, if you are so "horribly disappointed" by Jeff spending five minutes posting a pic and showing his solidarity, then maybe you should spend a couple of years growing up, then maybe check back in.
ReplyDeleteGreg said...
ReplyDeleteI agree that people should make a decent wage.
No, you don't.
You believe that corporations should have the right to exploit workers in third-world dictatorships, locking the doors of the factories so they die in industrial fires and collapsing roofs.
You believe in allowing American Corporations to sell you products, made off-shore by their "partners", with dangerous levels of lead.
You believe in allowing industrial corporate farms in the US to import temporary Mexican workers, and pay them minimum wage, so you can buy your cheap groceries.
If you believed in decent wages, you'd pay the extra $10 for a shirt made by unionized American garment-workers who make a living wage. The same unionized employees making a "decent wage" that can afford a mortgage and car, and buy your goods and/or services.
If you believed in a decent wage, you'd buy American, and refuse to buy anything made in China or any other third-world country that exploits its workers and ruins the environment, and you'd let your local store know about your choice.
Yes, companies exist to make THEIR OWNERS a profit. But if you refuse to buy their products when they ship jobs off-shore, they will bring the jobs back.
So don't blame Unions for the impoverishment of America. Unions are what made America great. They were the prime driver in improving working conditions, the introduction of the 40-hour work week, pensions to allow workers to retire with dignity, health benefits to take care of workers and their families.
If anyone is to blamed, blame yourself for your un-American, "impoverish-thy-neighbour" attitude, and your addiction to cheap, poisonous, foreign-made goods, at the expense of the jobs and decent wages of your fellow Americans.
Donations to the Wisconsin AFL-CIO defense fund can be made here (cut and paste): http://www.wisaflcio.org/index.cfm?action=article&articleID=8853d778-e839-4967-982e-c4ca49b2d26c
ReplyDeleteI am in awe of Jeff's enormous brass ones for not simply deleting certain comments. You go man!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm very proud of those who were able to go to demonstrations like this. If the reader thinks that makes me naive and/or evil, pfft, I am putting my Ignore Hat on at you.
Jeff, I'm very glad you put this on here. I do not feel like you 'got your politics in my DnD' and would not feel that way even if you were one of the asshat morons (no offense.. heh) on the other side of the issue. In other words, stick to your guns and get on your box when you bloody well please, mate.
@Paladin
ReplyDeleteNo, you don't.
Yes I do. And nowhere in my post did I say I supported any of the points you brought up.
I used to work at a company that ran a factory that employed about 30 workers. The company was forced to close in 2009 as it was losing money month after month. Part of it was due to the fact that is was a gold jewelry manufacturer and all the gold speculators drove the gold market prices sky-high. When the cost of your raw material to make your product increases 300% within a year, that has an impact. Add all the other expenses of running a business (health care, dental, workers comp, etc.,) and it imploded. The company couldn't raise it's prices maintain its profit margins because it's customers could get their product elsewhere for less cost. The workers weren't unionized labor, but the company failed nontheless. Another aspect was that the same product produced overseas is imported duty-free and in those countries they don't have the same labor laws as the US. So, its hard to compete and to stay in that type of business with all those advantages stacked against you.
Bree Yark wrote: ""Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members."
ReplyDeleteUm, thinking back to demonstrations I'm aware of, for the most part, when protesters get bloody it's usually their own blood, drawn by the violence of the police, which often comes regardless of how peaceful the protests are.
Which is most likely what he was talking about - sacrifice by the protesters, not rousing them to violence against others.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
If you want calls for violence, try the old Southerner who asked his GOP Congressman in GA when someone is going to shoot Obama, and Congressman Broun's failure to condemn the question. Indeed, Broun's response pretty much implied that it'd be premature to shoot Obama until 2012, should Obama mange to win.
@Paladin
ReplyDeleteSo if I don't support the unions I am un-American. Sorry if a Canadian is gonna lecture me on being an American...
The vast majority of working people in America have nothing to do with a union. We seem to get along just fine without it making (shocker!) a decent wage. Spare me your assumptions. Are we not workers too?
@Jon H:
ReplyDeleteYeah let's talk about union violence:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/10/have_you_heard_ken_gladneys_story_97836.html
http://www.breitbart.tv/union-member-attacks-tea-party-activist-at-moveon-org-organized-rally/
http://www.breitbart.tv/union-goon-roughs-up-tea-party-member-in-atlanta/
http://biggovernment.com/laborunionreport/2010/06/26/shocking-bat-wielding-union-thugs-attack-non-union-workers/
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/23/video-cwa-union-thug-strikes-young-female-freedomworks-activist/
Zed said...
ReplyDelete@Paladin
So if I don't support the unions I am un-American. Sorry if a Canadian is gonna lecture me on being an American...
Someone's got to do it. Your apology is accepted.
Jeff, thanks for posting this. Sorry for being late to this party, but for what it's worth, I'll add my two bits to the topic.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Norwegian, and I've been following this issue a little. This post has given me more of an insight in the matter.
As for unions, socialism and taxes, that's how we roll. I've got the impression that when Americans say socialism, they picture Josef Stalin.
The Scandinavian countries are examples of non-Stalinist socialism -- Social Democracy -- and despite paying an average of 40% in income tax, plus VAT and whathaveyou, Norway isn't doing half bad. Granted, we've got oil, but Sweden and Denmark haven't. Still, we've all got free health-care and education, plus a pant-load of other neat benefits and securities that make living here both safe, secure, cheap and comfortable.
The problem you've got is that your nation is broke. Cutting in its revenues isn't going to improve that. ATM you've got an 11% deficit in your national budget (and to my knowledge, you still haven't got a formal budget for this budget year).
Trusting corporations to look out for the nation's best interests is a concept I find it hard to wrap my head around. The corps are in it to make money, nothing more. If they can pay you less, they will, and damn the torpedoes.
To you, Jeff, and to all Americans who are trying to keep the USA from sinking further into the corporate mire, good luck, and God bless.
@Paladin: I LOL'd.
ReplyDelete@Harald: I hear ya. I think it's difficult for many Americans to process what you're saying without hearing from O'Reilly or Hannity on the matter. We prefer to let Rupert Murdoch do our thinking for us.
@Paladin:
ReplyDeleteFunny.
No counter-point? Just snarky come-backs?
You have got us all figured out.
Nice.
Zed said...
ReplyDelete@Paladin:
Funny. No counter-point? Just snarky come-backs? You have got us all figured out. Nice.
I don't have "us" all figured-out, but i've certainly got you pegged: a sock-puppet for right-wing media.
Prove me wrong. I look forward to visiting your blog, where you regale us with tales of your accumulated wisdom and experience.
Greg said...
ReplyDeleteThe workers weren't unionized labor, but the company failed nontheless.
Sorry to hear. I hope things worked out for you, and you found a better job.
Here in Tucson we had a very energetic 700+. Good times!
ReplyDelete@Greg Gorgonmilk:
ReplyDelete[Off topic comment]
Seriously, the fact that people actually rely on O'Riley and his ilk for information is something that scares me more than Al-Qaeda.
And give the high ratings of those shows, I understand that more and more people are turning to the Comedy Central for news (in itself rather scary).
@Paladin
ReplyDeleteYou got me pegged out? I'm a sock-puppet, can't think for myself? And what does that make you, a union shill? I avoid places like Wal-Mart here because the majority of the goods they sell do come from China with it's slave and near-slave labor. I buy American where possible (it's damn hard on some items) but I don't worship at the altar of unions because of reasons I've already expressed above. I'm no defender of corporations, I've lumped them in with unions in having too much say in politics. At then end of the day its the businesses that provide jobs so let's clear the field, close the loopholes and make sure the environment and workers are protected by fair laws. No favoritism and get government out of things it constitutionally has no place being. Maybe teach a little personal responsibility instead of growing a citizenry of professional victims.
You might has well have just called me a derogatory term. Skip all this Internet foreplay.
And now if I don't have a blog I can't play the comments game with you oh so mighty bloggers? Elitism anyone? It's your blogs but don't cry when others don't agree with you. If you don't want comments then kindly stfu or delete what you don't like.
@Zak S,
you were right. At least you had it pegged all along...
Paladin is hit by Wall of Text! 3d6 damage!!
ReplyDeleteZed said...
ReplyDelete@Paladin
If you don't want comments then kindly stfu or delete what you don't like.
?????
It's not my blog, dude.
Best of luck in your future endeavours.
@Harald: Totally agree. It doesn't seem so far-fetched to suggest that national politics in the US is now little more than a reality TV show. A distraction for all of us morons while the actual decisions are being made by billionaires.
ReplyDelete@Paladin:
ReplyDelete*sigh*
I know it isn't your blog. I was talking about bloggers in general. That's all you got?
I'm done.
@Zed wrote: "We seem to get along just fine without it making (shocker!) a decent wage"
ReplyDeleteWe do? Real wages have been stagnant for years. All the money's going to the wealthiest fraction of the US population. To the extent that people get increases in compensation, it mostly goes into healthcare premiums, rather than wages. Assuming they aren't required to pay a larger share of their healthcare costs and required to take pay cuts.
Then there are the companies who are refusing to hire anyone who's unemployed, making it that much harder for anyone who's been laid off in the downturn to find a new job.
And there are suspicions of age discrimination in the tech industry.
Doesn't look so good, really.
Andreas Davour asked: "Can someone maybe provide a link to some news for those of us across the pond who have no idea of what's happening in Wisconsin?"
ReplyDeleteHere is a nice summary:
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/whats-happening-wisconsin-explained
And great post, Jeff. Solidarity!
ReplyDeleteJeff, I'm with you. Wisconsin's governor is a liar and a con artist. Zed's comments reflect his myopic dedication to faux news outlets like the oxymoronic "Fox News" and other slanted sources.
ReplyDeleteTwo links:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
And to help understand the movement Gov. Walker is supporting:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
How politics works in our country:
ReplyDeleteA unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table.
In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
ckutalik said...
ReplyDeleteHow politics works in our country:
A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table.
In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
Actually, a Fox news talking-head is at the table, too. The CEO takes 11 cookies, breaks off a piece from one cookie and hands it to the Fox new talking-head. Between bites, the Fox news talking-head warns the tea party supporter about the union guy.
LOL, ckutalik and Paladin!
ReplyDelete@Paladin - You are way to snarky and not a US citizen to lecture or critic others on a gamming blog. You are more than entitled to create a political blog and see how many people will follow your diatribe. You game blog is succesful maybe your political one would be too.
ReplyDeleteI am avoiding further post by you here.
To Jeff and many on here.
I may disagree with many of you about the politics but I respect the valid point and discusions I have had with many of you here, in person, and other sites.
That said, the sound bites quotes and snarky comments from both sides is not fun. I am not in grade school and all that is missing is a group of kids yelling " Fight, Fight, Fight!!" to round out the experience.
I do appreciate the teacher's in Wisconsin defending there CBA agreement. We must remember Walker was elected to tear down the CBA and unions like he did in Milwaukee. It is what he ran on and won on.
What I do not agree with is the legislative branch using Illinois as a way to avoid the democratic purpose. For a day or two I think it helped show that come next election cycle that they were showing solidarty with the unions. After a couple of weeks it is a mockery of democracy and the democratic process. The union got the CBA put into place once, if it is a popular enough position we can get it put into place again.
Rick said: "We must remember Walker was elected to tear down the CBA and unions like he did in Milwaukee. It is what he ran on and won on."
ReplyDeleteThis is false.
I was living in Milwaukee during the last election, and Walker did *not* mention "tearing down the CBA and unions" once.
See:
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
ReplyDeleteWisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has history of going up against unions
MADISON, WIS. - On a Tuesday afternoon in September 2003, during Scott Walker's first term as Milwaukee County executive, scores of union workers gathered at the local courthouse to protest layoffs he had ordered as part of an aggressive effort to balance the budget and avoid what he said would otherwise be necessary tax increases.
snip
The layoffs Walker had announced that summer decimated the county's public parks staff and also reduced the number of county social workers, corrections officers and janitors. As a result, park bathrooms were shuttered and pools were closed. Trash was piled up so high in the Milwaukee County Courthouse that visitors had to sidestep apple cores and coffee cups, and some judges resorted to cleaning toilets, a local newspaper reported.
Despite the deep cuts and the union uproar, Walker cruised to reelection the following spring and remained in his post six more years, until his successful gubernatorial run in the fall.
snip
"Anybody who said they didn't see this coming wasn't paying attention to the election," said Joe Sanfelippo, a member of the Milwaukee County Board of Supervisors and a Walker supporter. "He's true to his word . . . he's not going to back down."
@Akrasia -- Right back at you buddy!!
He has done this before. This is how he has won and how he continues to run his political career. He managed to get voted in and started to do what he has in the past. No need to attack or defend the man. His record speaks for its self.
What strikes me as funny is the tripe against a PUBLIC sector union as if that is the last place a union should be.
ReplyDeletePut aside whether or not there should be unions at all and compare what place needs a union more, public or private.
In the private sector, if you do not have a union the free market (assuming there aren't deals like between apple and google that recently were busted) will solve the problem. If the employer treats the employee like shiat the employee leaves for a better company. The company is left with shiat employees and loses money. The managers boss fires him for screwing this up and or the company goes bust as its competitors have all of the good productive employees.
In the public sector, if there is no union things go differently. A bad manager drives away the good talent. Only bad and corrupt workers are willing to stay behind and take the abuse causing the state to bleed extra money and provide poor service. Because there is no consumer they need to appease rather than incompetant managers being fired for driving off the good staff (and failing their own job AS manager) they simply declare they need more money and raise taxes.
Even if you think unions are worthless: If anywhere had need of a union it would be public sector.
I also don't think people are thinking about what happens if you let the government break its contracts. Now it may be busting unions (which you approve), but tommorow it could demand retroactive back taxes. Imagine being taxed for the last 8 years on a tax they just passed now.
Future thinking.