Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Dice Idiosyncrasies

My recent non-exposé of Lou Zocchi has gotten me thinking more about dice. Unlike many players I’ve known over the years, I’ve never been particularly superstitious about dice. I’ve never had a set or even a single die that I cherished because I thought it was luckier than other polyhedrals. I used to be a little smug about that, but thanks to Colonel Lou now I know that lots of hobby dice really do get skewed results. I do have lots of other little psychological quirks when it comes to dice, though. Here are a few of them.

1) Mixing dice with numerals and dice with pips in a single roll is anathema to me. If I have to roll a bunch of sixers for a fireball or something, I always try to roll one kind of d6 or the other. I get tripped up adding all the dice if the numbers are represented in two different formats.

2) I like percentile dice for sci-fi games and Call of Cthulhu, and that’s about it. I much prefer d6-based resolution or mixed handfuls of polyhedrons for other genres. I think my mind perceives percentile dice and base ten math as more scientific. This delusion is probably related to how I prefer metric measurements in sci-fi and imperial measurements in fantasy.

3) When I set up for a game that uses lotsa different dice, I begin each session by sorting the die types into the groups. All the d20’s go in one spot, all the d6’s in another, etc. Ostensibly I do this to make finding the right dice easier during play, but the real reason is an obsessive need to sort the dice.

4) I generally prefer rolling one or two dice for standard actions. Three dice for resolution isn’t a deal-breaker, but the rest of the system has to be good. Personally, GURPS doesn’t quite make the cut. HERO System used to, but the constant need to roll ten or twenty dice for damage drug it down. Four dice for resolving a standard dice-needing action requires a truly superb game, like Risus. Pretty much any game that actually has the phrase “dice pool” in it just isn’t going to light my jets.

4a) Counting “successes” sucks donkey balls. Please quit mangling the word “success” while simultaneously calling on the players to count/add something besides the numbers on the dice! There. I said it. And I’m not taking it back.

5) I like the occasional, spectacular giant fistful o’ dice as a way to punctuate that something awesome is happening. I.e. a bucket of dice for an occasional fireball is just dandy in my book. Or rolling 30d10 to determine exactly how many orcs are ruining your wilderness expedition.

6) You know all those dice that have something cool on them besides numbers? Like skulls for the sixes or a die that rolls what kind of trap you encounter or something like that? The dice companies need to either make sure that stuff doesn’t rub off the die or quit making the damn things. I’m still burned about my ghost die mysteriously mutating into a cubical d5.

7) Speckled dice? Translucent gem dice? You know what kind of dice I like best? The kind you can frickin’ read under the less-than-ideal lighting conditions of a random con event or game store demo.

8) Occasionally I’ve heard people talk up those d10’s marked 00, 10, 20, etc because they discourage cheating on percentile throws. Personally I like them because in the split second between selecting a tens die and rolling the pair I often forget which die is which. Yes, I am that dumb.

9) I like dice that are purple. Green dice are cool, too.

21 comments:

  1. I have come to realize, over the course of the last few of your posts here, that I have no opinion about dice whatsoever (beyond a general enjoyment of hoarding them and putting them in little cloth bags).

    I feel suddenly like an outsider, like when people start talking about how they like the Matrix, or Highlander, and all I can do is just stand by, scan the walls for something interesting, and hope nobody notices :)

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  2. Anonymous10:11 AM

    In regards to 8), you ain't the only dumb one!

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  3. Sir, some of the greatest games known to mankind have used dice pools. Any man who says that West End Games' Star Wars RPG doesn't light their jets is either lying or hasn't played Star Wars. And this player can count successes faster than figuring out his chance to hit in d20, and he still can't figure out how THAC0 works.

    However, I'm with you on points 1 and 2.

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  4. ...I prefer metric measurements in sci-fi and imperial measurements in fantasy.

    I may have just found my next Facebook status update ;)



    Oh, and personally, I love the successes idea, but then I'm a massive fan of dice pools and the Storyteller system in general :D

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  5. I'm right there with you from points 4 through 9.

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  6. You know, this may be one of those "two types of people in the world" situations: those who get tripped up by counting successes and those who get tripped up by figuring out THAC0.

    I'm solidly in the former camp, and can't for the life of me figure out people who "don't get" THAC0. It seems like the most intuitive thing in the world to me.

    I have to say that a small part of my recent conversion from GURPS to BRP is the prospect of being able to use polyhedrals. I know GURPS uses d6s to increase its "universality," but there's just something weird to me about being able to play an RPG with dice pilfered from your Monopoly boxes in the closet. And yet I have no problem with miniatures games generally using only d6s... Dice idiosyncracies are weeeeeeeeeeird.

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  7. I feel so much better I am not alone on 1).

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  8. I've had some issues with dice randomness. Back in college, I gained a sense that my percentile dice (a pair of Koplow d20s marked 0-9 twice) were not totally random. So I took my Battlemat, and made a 10x10 grid labeled 1-10 for row and column. I then did 1000 rolls of the percentile dice. There was a noticeable clumping. Then I noticed that 7s featured in the clumping and 2s featured in the sparse zone. Then I noticed that the two 7s were adjacent, and the two 2s were adjacent, on the opposite side of the die from the 7s.

    From that I gained a strong preference for d20s marked 0-9 twice as d10s, with each pair of digits on opposite faces (the two 0s opposite, the two 1s opposite, etc.) since that would tend to reduce the susceptibility of the die to poor balance.

    On the comments about d6 systems, I like what many of these systems do, but I definitely get a bit bummed out about not using all my polyhedrals. Although I haven't played much Fudge, I think that would actually be even worse since the variety of Fudge dice is pretty slim. I likes my collection of various cool colors of dice.

    If d10s are going to be forced on me, I definitely appreciate the percentile d10s to reduce confusion (my personal rule is the darker die is the 10s, but too many players like to switch it up, and then forget to call which die is 10s).

    When GMing, I prefer to have my stash for me. I have another stash for players to use.

    I haven't yet heavily played a dice pool game, but I like the idea. As these games become more popular, hopefully we will start to see dice with appropriate markings (I used to play a naval wargame that had special dice available, d6 with 3 red sides, 2 blue, and 1 yellow, the game then called various probabilities using the colors - a nice feature).

    Frank

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  9. How do you feel about exploding dice, ie dice that are open-ended as per the specific game system?

    I love 'em. The look that comes over a player's face when he rolls a 10 on his d10...and then realizes he can pick it up and roll it again...

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  10. I like the idea of exploding dice for some things. But I do have a problem with the jumpy nature of the probability curve.

    In college, I used a system developed by a friend that resolves the jumpy probability curve. He came up with a simple way to use the normal distribution to provide for open ended rolls that have a nice smooth probability curve.

    I have an extensive writeup of this dice mechanism here. It does involve a table lookup, but I was able to memorize the central portion of the curve that represents the bulk of the rolls. Combined with the fact that with experience characters it was almost impossible to fumble (thus you only had to look up a low roll if it was REALLY bad) meant that having to do a lookup probably meant something exciting was going to happen.

    There are some ways to make exploding dice not too bumpy. Cold Iron used exploding dice in character generation. If you rolled an 18 for a stat, you re-rolled the dice. For each 6 you rolled, you got to add one to the 18, and then re-roll that die. That's a lot less bumpy than the systems where if you roll the max, you roll the dice again and add to the max (that system should actually be to add to the max-1 unless using a 0-9 or 00-99 roll, otherwise the max value can never be generated - for example, for an exploding d6, the possible values are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13...).

    Frank


    Frank

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  11. 3) When I set up for a game that uses lotsa different dice, I begin each session by sorting the die types into the groups. All the d20’s go in one spot, all the d6’s in another, etc. Ostensibly I do this to make finding the right dice easier during play, but the real reason is an obsessive need to sort the dice.

    I do this, too. Same reason.

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  12. Dice- the Maniac has lots. LOTS! I don't have very many at all anymore. I have two ideosyncracies-

    1) My dice have to be picked by me. None of this "use mine" crap. I gotta pick em.

    2) If I ever need lots of D6 damage dice, I am stealing the Maniac's "Little Red Fiends". They've been in the bucket of dice (a gallon ice cream bucket) for over 2 years and still have heaving gut fulls of damage in 'em.

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  13. Anonymous7:37 PM

    My favorite dice are actually a set of "themed" d10's, made for White Wolf's (way too short-lived) sci-fi RPG Trinity (nee Aeon...I have the original Aeon binder and prefer it dramatically, but that's another rant).

    They're a bit lighter in weight than my other d10's, but that's because of how they're constructed. See, they're a very, very vibrant orange, with "raised" numerals on each face (rather than the numbers being cut into the die, the die is cut around the numbers. I always forget whether that's relief or bas-relief, so I skip the technical terms). The area around the numbers is painted black.

    In 6 years of near constant use, since most games my group has been playing lately require d10's, they haven't worn or chipped, I've never had any trouble reading them under any circumstances, and they're much easier to find when dropped on the floor.

    If I could find more dice like that, of all different kinds, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

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  14. Boy, this topic is getting the love!

    I love d10's and percentiles. Probably because I like the mathiness, and also because my first 'other' RPG was Runequest.

    I hate d4's. It's too hard to make a d4 roll. It'll hit the table and sort of slide. If I have an option between a weapon that will do 1d6 damage or one that will do 2d4, I'll take the 1d6.

    I'm not really a big fan of roll-under systems, and this is despite the Runequest fannishness I mentioned earlier. I prefer a system where more is better.

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  15. Sean, that's why I have a bunch of Gamescience 8-sided d4s (octohedron numbered 1-4 twice) such as these

    Frank

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  16. Thanks for the link, Frank. That's such an obvious solution to the problem. I like the squared-off corners, too.

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  17. For me its: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, & 8.

    This is my own addition:

    7a) When I'm have trouble reading a die do to lighting, I would repaint the numbers or pips.

    9) I like dice that are black with red numbers or pips, and red dice with gold numbers or pips - but that is just my preference.

    10) Sometimes, when rolling a set of dice - like percentile dice, or ability rolls - they must be of a uniformed set. That is, they must all be speckled, or clear, or purl, or solid, but they can still be of different colors.

    11) The stacking of dice is as much a sport, as it is an art!

    12) rubbing or thumbing a die, is is good for concentration.

    13) I reject any dice from the game table that I deem to be a "funny die". Its never good when dice keep rolling the same results.

    14) A d2? A d2!!! Flip a coin, buddy!

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  18. An old DM of mine hand this one d20 that was just not making him happy. He'd try it and try it and would never get rolls he wanted (like it would never roll higher than a 5, or something like that).

    So he took it out on his front step and beat on it with a hammer.

    When he had about 30% of it knocked away (those things are really tough...) he brought the big chunk back in and showed it to the other dice. You know, for encouragement.

    It would be really funny if his other dice started behaving better, but they just kept rolling like they usually did...

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  19. So he took it out on his front step and beat on it with a hammer.

    That is a vary common idiosyncrasies with dice. When gamers feel their dice are "funny", they have been known to bury them, nuke them in a microwave, blast them with fireworks, throw them in a lake or river, melt them down with lighter fluid or a magnifying glass, and yes, bash them with a hammer!!!

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  20. Oh, Hey! I haven't done this in a while, but:

    When setting up at the beginning of the game. I used to turn all my dice so they all had the maximum value facing up. I would then tap each die hard on the table, and leave them with the max value up. This was to allow the 'heavy ions to settle to the bottom,' so the die would be more inclined to roll 20s (or whatever). Not that I really believed in it, but it got a good reaction from fellow players and you never know . . .

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  21. I have no sympathy or experience for (3) at all. Not in the slightest. No siree.

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