Here are the biggest critters (by hit dice) in the D&D rulebook with which I started my roleplaying hobby.Dragons (6-11 HD)
Great Cats (3+2 to 8 HD)
Bears (4-7 HD)
Minotaur (6 HD)
Lycanthropes (3-6 HD)
Giant Lizards (3-6 HD)
Ochre Jelly (5 HD)
Owlbear (5 HD)
Rust Monster (5 HD)
Living Statues (3-5 HD)
Snakes (1-5 HD)
I don't remember Sabre Tooth Tigers being so bad ass, but at 8HD they were mightier than some dragons! Imagine how freaked out the PCs would be if they stumbled upon one of these big cats chewing on a freshly killed dragon! Cave bears and Polar Bears are also high up on the food chain, which I think is totally awesome. I think the record will show that I am firmly pro-bearmauling in my games.
If you compare this list to its predecessor, you'll note that the HD trend lower with the exception of dragons. The Moldvay edition may be the secret origin of the "OMG! Dragonz R teh best!" design trend over the last several editions. If the people who built the stats for the 2nd and 3rd edition dragons started playing with Moldvay Basic, of course they would assume that dragons are supposed to be the toughest monsters in the world. That runs counters to the assumption that because dragons are in the name of the game, they should be ubiquitous as well. Thus you end up with the situation in 3e where dragons range from tiny lizard babies at CR -2 to Godzilla level CR 57,000 threats. Personally, I'm not of the opinion that dragons have to be supergiganto to work in D&D. They should be too tough for low level adventurers to handle, but high level people should be able to subdue them and ride them around like firebreathing skyponies. That's one of the advantages of being high level!
The other thing I notice about this chart is that, aside from dragons, there is no overlap with the Holmes list or the OD&D list. Adventurers coming up in the implied setting of Moldvay's version had a very different world than the earlier incarnations of D&D. Perhaps Moldvay's vision of the D&D world was more inspired by lost civilizations struggling to survive the extinction of the ice age? That would go far to explain all the giant bears and sabre tooths and bigass snakes.
Didn't they know they were going to be making an "Expert Set" when they made the Moldvay "Basic Set"? At least some of the critters on the Holmes list you posted didn't show up until the Expert Set if I'm remembering right.
ReplyDeleteAlso - I think Moldvay had a heavy "pulp" influence, or at least I think a heavy pulp influence comes through in his work (Castle Amber and Isle of Dread are most obvious, but also The Lost City among his D&D work). My take was that the prehistoric stuff was inspired by the "Lost World" stories that were somewhat popular in the pulps and in 50s-60s comic books (Monster Island, Savage Land, Dinosaur Island, Tarzan, Conan Doyle's "Lost World", etc.)
Jer, I'm working on the Expert set list and you're right. Giants and hydras and such do appear in the Expert set. More on that later.
ReplyDeleteYou're right about the Lost World angle. In the entries for the sabre tooth and cave bear Moldvay specifically mentions the intention to use these beasts in Lost World areas. I just think it would be awesome if you made the whole campaign setting a lost world.
As someone who came into during the decline of 2nd Edition, I have to say it's always cool to check out your views on earlier editions.
ReplyDeleteI also must confess that I share a love of module B2 with you, as well!
Keep it up, man. Good stuff.
Oh, and since I know you like German games, you might want to check out my latest blog entry.
You can't ever go wrong with bears. When I think of all the best gaming stories I've heard, they all end with death-by-bear.
ReplyDeleteinfamous jum -
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, the first character death in my first D&D 3e campaign was, in fact, a monk who was killed by a cave bear. Good times.
On the other hand - I don't think I ever had a bear kill anyone back when I was running Basic D&D games. Kobolds yes, bears no.
We definitely didn't get killed by any bears when I played. I don't think we ever even saw one! Realism has gone a long way towards making a better game but I do miss the classic "dungoen crawl" in the maze that's there for no reason with the monsters that make no sense.
ReplyDeleteRealism has gone a long way towards making a better game but I do miss the classic "dungoen crawl" in the maze that's there for no reason with the monsters that make no sense.
ReplyDeleteRealism has gone a long way towards making a better simulation, I'll grant that. But an environ where the next encounter could be anything makes for a very exciting game.
It always seemed weird to me that dragons were kind weak with tons of treasure (including Expert mosnters). Giants and other things were tougher.
ReplyDeleteI think it might have something to do with how the game evolved in Gygax's group. Maybe dragons were introduced fairly early and designed to be challenging to players at the time. Then later they needed tougher monsters so made giants tougher.
I think real dragons should be very tough and rare but dragonish monsters should pop up fairly ofte.
Stan
The Mentzer Companion set later gave dragons a nice kick up in power. The dragons from the Basic set became "Small" dragons, and the Companion set included "Large" and "Huge" dragons. The Red Dragon, for example, looked like this:
ReplyDeleteSmall/Large/Huge
AC -1/-3/-5
HD 10/15/20
Bite 4d8/4d8+4/4d8+8
Claw 1d8/1d10+1/1d12+2
They got more spells, and additional abilities, and so forth. These "growth ranges" were later built into the setting of Mystara by Bruce Heard. Dragon growth normally topped out at Small, but then the dragon could gather treasure and experience, perform a special ceremony, and increase in size and power. It gave dragons a reason to have treasure beyond simple greed, and also gave them a good reason to go on a rampage every once in a while, to gather the energy and experience necessary to advance in size and power...
Anyway, the Companion level dragons kicked some serious ass up through mid-Master level. When a 20th level fighter had at best 121 HP (9d8+27+22), and a 20 HD Huge Red can potentially do up to 160 points in one breath if it's been untouched... well, you do the math...