tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post601792656256607763..comments2024-03-27T22:32:17.055-05:00Comments on Jeffs Gameblog: He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates 2-dimensional thinking...Jeff Rientshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-60866946188680512432009-04-03T13:40:00.000-05:002009-04-03T13:40:00.000-05:00For some reason, seeing those dungeon maps made me...For some reason, seeing those dungeon maps made me recall the old dwarven racial abilities from previous editions. You know, the "know your depth and direction underground." I think it was 1-3 on a 1d6.<BR/><BR/>But yeah, multiple level dungeons seem to be rare nowadays.<BR/><BR/>Hmm...maybe something I can whip up...Cedric Atizadohttp://www.familiar-ground.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-66935003901244094642009-04-03T11:16:00.000-05:002009-04-03T11:16:00.000-05:00It's a good article and the cavern idea is evocati...It's a good article and the cavern idea is evocative but I wonder if this might just be something that computer games do better. Your Scooby-Doo shot looks like something out of Final Fantasy X-2 and Tomb Raider is a classic of the giant cavern that you navigate in sections.Noumenonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01597461989960782762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-87905518991979045502009-04-02T21:01:00.000-05:002009-04-02T21:01:00.000-05:00Jeff--your post got me to playing around with this...Jeff--your post got me to playing around with this. I posted an effort on my blog at [http://wheel-of-samsara.blogspot.com/2009/04/enterthe-third-dimension.html]. Obviously, I'm still working on it. ;)Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-9425191483098478402009-04-02T08:49:00.000-05:002009-04-02T08:49:00.000-05:00I must admit, I didn't get the joke, as a comp...<B>I must admit, I didn't get the joke, as a comparison of D&D and Wrath of Khan is the kind of thing I expect from this blog, and why I come back!</B><BR/><BR/>I thought it would be a waste of time trying to write a Jamie Mal-esque post if I didn't actually have something to talk about.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-39383338098706084512009-04-02T04:20:00.000-05:002009-04-02T04:20:00.000-05:00Heh, hivemind. :-\I've been thinking about incorpo...Heh, hivemind. :-\<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking about incorporating a series of ferris-wheel rooms (a vertical variation on the old rotating section trick) and a multi-level Grand Vault (based on the Piranesi pic on the cover of my Quick Ref notes) into the Vaults of Nagoh.<BR/><BR/>wv: ducteask - the spider-like creatures which live in the spiralling vertical tubes between dungeon levels.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-39701401537858942802009-04-02T02:48:00.000-05:002009-04-02T02:48:00.000-05:00After seeing the Creepy (Lighthouse) Keeper episod...After seeing the Creepy (Lighthouse) Keeper episode of 'What's New, Scooby-Doo?' and the old Doctor Who serial Horror of Fang Rock, I want to run an adventure set in and around a lighthouse nowJayson Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04614536655190765654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-18942899169706255522009-04-02T02:17:00.000-05:002009-04-02T02:17:00.000-05:00I must admit, I didn't get the joke, as a comparis...I must admit, I didn't get the joke, as a comparison of <I>D&D</I> and <I>Wrath of Khan</I> is the kind of thing I expect from this blog, and why I come back!thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-7947909902165650472009-04-01T22:10:00.000-05:002009-04-01T22:10:00.000-05:00Indeed, my Megadungeon-in-progress, in addition to...Indeed, my Megadungeon-in-progress, in addition to the more standard 10' dungeon level, has two sets of levels--the Library and the Temple, which are each 30-40' high, with balconies and bridges. And the Lake will have some depth to it as well, come to think of it.<BR/><BR/>My ultimate ambition is to set up a giant set-piece battle in the Temple with archers on one set of balconies, a mage-as-artillery on another, the players literally swinging from the chandeliers, and a dragon flying around crisping them. Much of the desire to build my own damn megadungeon came specifically from wanting to build a big 3-D arena for this sort of combat.Adam Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368676086759298705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-50479985614661854252009-04-01T21:28:00.000-05:002009-04-01T21:28:00.000-05:00My own dungeons, such as Under Xylarthen's Tower, ...<I>My own dungeons, such as Under Xylarthen's Tower, suffer from this issue, as do Stonehell and Mad Archmage, and many other great fan efforts and commercial releases.</I><BR/><BR/>Yet more evidence that the blognards all drink from the same tainted well, as the vertical axis of the dungeon has been on my mind for the last month or so.<BR/><BR/>I have plans to introduce something into Stonehell that addresses the very topic you're discussing here, Jeff. If all goes according to plan, starting on level 5 or 6, there's going to be a big oppportunity to advance and descend quickly - and possibly painfully - along the vertical.Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-20399803910050567292009-04-01T19:11:00.000-05:002009-04-01T19:11:00.000-05:00My players were making Scooby Doo references durin...My players were making Scooby Doo references during our last game session. Little did they realize that Scooby Doo is a major influence on all my gaming. :DStuarthttp://robertsongames.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-80956213427786022022009-04-01T18:54:00.000-05:002009-04-01T18:54:00.000-05:00I can't believe you're citing Scooby-Doo in Where'...I can't believe you're citing Scooby-Doo in Where's My Mummy?! So awesome. Coincidentally, as I watch Scooby-Doo and the Loch Ness Monster, I find the castle layout during the first monster chase (when Shag and Scoob get up for a midnight snack) to be eerily reminiscent of parts of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft....Jayson Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04614536655190765654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-89552046066249143642009-04-01T17:34:00.000-05:002009-04-01T17:34:00.000-05:00Real life provides some great examples of actual t...Real life provides some great examples of actual three dimensional dungeons... Here's one overlooked underground settlement...<BR/><BR/>http://www.rincondelmisterio.com/derinkuyu-la-misteriosa-ciudad-subterranea-de-turquia/en/<BR/><BR/>And of course, there are the catacombs of Paris...<BR/>http://www.catacombs.explographies.com/GameDaddynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-60469828548037164942009-04-01T17:18:00.000-05:002009-04-01T17:18:00.000-05:00You nicely captured his tone, though I think in re...<B>You nicely captured his tone, though I think in reality he goes way more overboard.</B><BR/><BR/>Thanks, I thought no one would notice since it's actually a topic I'm serious about. And I didn't have a lot of time. This swapping mastheads thingy was pretty spur of the moment.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-74621902133954994762009-04-01T17:06:00.000-05:002009-04-01T17:06:00.000-05:00Bob Bledsaw and Paul Jaquays are the map geniuses:...Bob Bledsaw and Paul Jaquays are the map geniuses: in wilderness, cities and dungeons. None have surpassed them IMHO. It's not a surprise you cite JG's maps.<BR/><BR/>Paul Jaquays then worked as a QUAKE map designer. So he seems to be an expert of the 3-D design. <BR/><BR/>Praise them,<BR/><BR/>ZulgyanSantiago Oríahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06004778441776946649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-62266581893026346232009-04-01T16:54:00.000-05:002009-04-01T16:54:00.000-05:00Stefan Poag's Khunmar is the greatest dungeon ever...Stefan Poag's Khunmar is the greatest dungeon ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-26662644046238632242009-04-01T16:29:00.000-05:002009-04-01T16:29:00.000-05:00That's exactly what I currently try to build for t...That's exactly what I currently try to build for the Witch Fortress dungeon in my campaign, with a labyrinth of make-shift scaffolding, crow's nests and bridges on top of the ruined keep, and vertical tunnels for the levels below it. Easily accessible for the local witches with their broomsticks, but ground-bound adventurers will have a hell of a time with loads of climbing and back-tracking, while clever ideas with ropes and make-shift bridges might come in handy to create short-cuts.<BR/><BR/>I also plan to build in some monsters who rely heavily on ranged combat... Yes, you get to see that Hell Knight three levels before you run into him accidentally, but he'll also get some free acid balls against you, so better bring some smoke bombs and other obfuscation equipment with you.Skyrockhttp://kopikala.blutschwerter.de/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-69627521065798244182009-04-01T14:29:00.000-05:002009-04-01T14:29:00.000-05:00When I go back through some of my old gaming stuff...When I go back through some of my old gaming stuff, I’m amazed by how much the younger me seemed to do this kind of stuff without even thinking about it. When/why did I lose that?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-81980856774208518552009-04-01T14:07:00.000-05:002009-04-01T14:07:00.000-05:00I had to deal with this when I worked with Dark To...I had to deal with this when I worked with Dark Tower. In the Slime God example I would cut out the overlapping portion and display it as a sub level off to the right of the map.<BR/><BR/>In case of the Thracia, ScoobyDoo Clepatra. I place markers (that you don't see on the printed version). When I make the next level I put the upper level on a background layer and use the markers as guide points. The result is that I make sure all the holes are properly lined up. <BR/><BR/>The real trick is slicing the dungeon in such a way so that it is usable and representative. Something that my day job of calculating the flat parts need to make a 3D object helps with.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-73533147894582904392009-04-01T13:48:00.000-05:002009-04-01T13:48:00.000-05:00Yeah, I always liked to put a nice big shaft that ...Yeah, I always liked to put a nice big shaft that ran from 3rd or 4th level all the way to the bottom. Want to get down straight to the dragon at the end of the dungeon? Hope you brought enough rope. If anyone falls, no biggie - they'll land on the giant spider webs around the 8th level...<BR/><BR/>>Nothing beats Castle Ravenloft (I6) for 3D maps<<BR/><BR/>Looks great, but makes for a better game of Qbert than a useful 3D dungeon map.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-57850497022816156702009-04-01T13:18:00.000-05:002009-04-01T13:18:00.000-05:00Nothing beats Castle Ravenloft (I6) for 3D maps.Nothing beats Castle Ravenloft (I6) for 3D maps.Banesfingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938723674120202818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-82488965320625404472009-04-01T13:14:00.000-05:002009-04-01T13:14:00.000-05:00This runs a bit counter to the notion that you may...This runs a bit counter to the notion that you may build a megadungeon organically by just putting together three levels and getting some players in there to start mixing things up. To do this sort of thing properly requires planning that might squelch some ideas or lock you into others.Restlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586442439173490257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-50995157876991078842009-04-01T13:00:00.000-05:002009-04-01T13:00:00.000-05:00You nicely captured his tone, though I think in re...You nicely captured his tone, though I think in reality he goes way more overboard.Settembrininoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-47404521559848973462009-04-01T12:51:00.000-05:002009-04-01T12:51:00.000-05:00I think part of the problem is that dungeon levels...I think part of the problem is that dungeon levels are part of the game's in-built difficulty "switch". The whole system is built around an assumption that levels are going to be largely independent of each other, and will increase in difficulty as they go deeper. If you plonk a big room somewhere that plunges through multiple levels, then the players can get (literally) beyond their depth much more easily than normal.<BR/><BR/>Not that such a situation would necessarily be a bad thing, of course, but I do wonder how many designers are reluctant to do so because they're unconsciously obeying these in-built principles of "game balance".thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-11329155530684873722009-04-01T12:47:00.000-05:002009-04-01T12:47:00.000-05:00Absolutely! I love 3-D dungeons and have been maki...Absolutely! I love 3-D dungeons and have been making mine more and moreso of late. I think it's great to break the monotony of 'vanilla' dungeons, and it encourages players to think about their surroundings more - if not forcing them to (because of the pterodactyls roosting 150' above).<BR/><BR/>It can be a stretch on the descriptive-fu of a GM, nut I've found that quick sketchings can convey the important parts well enough.Ragnorakkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812860633134547618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-16264836670771483972009-04-01T12:42:00.000-05:002009-04-01T12:42:00.000-05:00As far as CotMA goes, I believe it is levels eight...As far as CotMA goes, I believe it is levels eight through eleven which are intended to be highly interconnected vertically in precisely the way you're talking about here; they're natural caves and caverns with a lot of open galleries, rifts, chasms, natural bridges, etc. Should be a blast if I don't go mad trying to map it.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01355324231111953098noreply@blogger.com