tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post4733828285069389129..comments2024-03-27T22:32:17.055-05:00Comments on Jeffs Gameblog: an alternative to race+classJeff Rientshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-77791908695241529352009-06-19T19:23:13.433-05:002009-06-19T19:23:13.433-05:00I am not in favor of expanding classes to demihuma...I am not in favor of expanding classes to demihumans <i>generally</i>, although I can see how it might be used to garner a little more interest from players if there's a whiff of burnout in the air. That being said, I'm torn now, having considered the words "halfling spelltwerp" for a few moments. The mind reels!ze bulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603716850479808633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-57682738242204196282009-03-21T09:29:00.000-05:002009-03-21T09:29:00.000-05:00Thanks, now I absolutely want to play an Elven bak...Thanks, now I absolutely want to play an Elven baker in a LL campaign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-86624014254292151362009-03-20T20:23:00.000-05:002009-03-20T20:23:00.000-05:00I'll probably put most of these classes here i...I'll probably put most of these classes here if I develop the idea further. I don't want to make Calithena have to choose between publishing my cookie-making elves and something swordish & sorcery-esque!Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-3047108105459404212009-03-20T20:07:00.000-05:002009-03-20T20:07:00.000-05:00I was reading through this, and from over my shoul...I was reading through this, and from over my shoulder heard a little voice say, "I want to be a Spelltwerp!" Is that going to be in Fight On, or is it to be posted here sometime?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-44381674045067719262009-03-20T04:04:00.000-05:002009-03-20T04:04:00.000-05:00My "solution" to the problem is to provi...My "solution" to the problem is to provide other "multiclass" combinations for dwarves and halflings which work like the Elf. So, we have Dwarven Warcasters which are a combination of fighter and cleric (with a different spell progression, analogously to the BECMI Elf). And the Halfling Adventurer, which combines fighter and thief. And just for fun and completeness, a Warrior Elf, which is basically a fighter like the standard Dwarf and Halfling. It has worked perfectly, and it sort of respects the classical AD&D archetypes.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>AntonioAntoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17258180992723371727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-58571041910680869142009-03-19T16:43:00.000-05:002009-03-19T16:43:00.000-05:00I got to say I prefer the different race specific ...I got to say I prefer the different race specific classes rather than just adding modifiers to existing classes.<BR/><BR/>Psychologically, it makes them seem like different things, rather than just variations.<BR/><BR/>It is very similar to Talislanta, which is by no means a bad thing, though it does have a advantage of being a bit more accessable I think. I mean, a Zandir Charlatan does not have the mythic resonance that a Dwarven Alchemist does. Which is not to say that Talislanta fails because of that, just that the play experience is different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-60759526924688499882009-03-19T15:33:00.000-05:002009-03-19T15:33:00.000-05:00Instead of new classes, what about just having cla...Instead of new classes, what about just having class-flavoured feats (sorry about the new school term). Give these out every 5 levels or so.<BR/><BR/>For example: animal companion, rage, martial arts, etc. Details would only be 2-3 sentences long.<BR/><BR/>This way a fighter with 'animal companion' would feel different than a fighter with 'holy warrior'.<BR/><BR/>Mixing and matching feats would get the players (and DM) close to any class they could think of - without writing up tonns of classes. For example a 'tracking' feat and 'dual wield' would make a fighter feel like a ranger, etc.Banesfingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06938723674120202818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-6692365147250338052009-03-19T08:59:00.000-05:002009-03-19T08:59:00.000-05:00This looks to me like exactly what 3.x did in the ...This looks to me like exactly what 3.x did in the long run. Not so much slipping down the slope as leaping off of it.<BR/><BR/>The classes (i.e., magic user, thief (if you include it), fighting man, etc.) are archetypes of characters, and I don't see the need to multiply them out like that.<BR/><BR/>Instead, I've been putting together a much simpler solution that involves basic XP% penalties. A Dwarf, for example, could become a cleric, but with a 5% XP penalty, or become a Thief with a 10% penalty. I've even thoguht that it might be plausible to say that he could become a magic user, but would suffer a whopping 25% penalty for pursuing a career that runs so against the grain of what it means to be a Dwarf.Hamlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-84247995315994435192009-03-19T06:42:00.000-05:002009-03-19T06:42:00.000-05:00Elf Shoemaker, surely?Top stuff Jeff. Especially g...Elf Shoemaker, surely?<BR/><BR/>Top stuff Jeff. Especially good for introducing new players to the archetypes used in a game.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072272223837426211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-53097220789060527522009-03-19T03:34:00.000-05:002009-03-19T03:34:00.000-05:00It might be worth looking at an old article by Eri...It might be worth looking at an old article by Erin Smale for creation of Classic D&D custom classes: http://breeyark.org/node/112Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-4057900957264107672009-03-19T01:08:00.000-05:002009-03-19T01:08:00.000-05:00This is a fantastic idea. In addition to retro-gam...This is a fantastic idea. In addition to retro-games, I play Burning Wheel, and I love their careers for the flavor they give to the game.<BR/><BR/>Men have Sorcery, Elves have Spellsongs and Dwarves have their own Arts of crafting... but no Dwarven Wizards there!<BR/><BR/>It's a great way for a DM to give his world a unique flavor. Cool!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-11681956928101041872009-03-19T00:28:00.000-05:002009-03-19T00:28:00.000-05:00Elf HairdresserHalfling PaperweightDwarf Lawn Orna...Elf Hairdresser<BR/>Halfling Paperweight<BR/>Dwarf Lawn Ornament<BR/><BR/>There are so many ways to go...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-82462475874132562872009-03-18T23:02:00.000-05:002009-03-18T23:02:00.000-05:00“Good players will always recognize that you (the ...“Good players will always recognize that you (the DM) have ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding some-thing in a rulebook. Good DMs know not to change or overturn a published rule without a good, logical justification.”<BR/> Monte Cook, July 2003clovishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03647936958773934755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-49450095404268560542009-03-18T21:20:00.000-05:002009-03-18T21:20:00.000-05:00Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay does this in a way. I a...Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay does this in a way. I always hated and loved the dnd race + class system. It's fun, but at the same time I always feel either generic or pigeonholed by class and racial archetypes. Background options sort of alleviated this problem but it always just felt like a patch. I always liked the idea of generating a character based on their culture, talents and upbringing. <BR/><BR/>But anyways, check out warhammer fantasy roleplaying, or the mmo warhammer: age of reckoning. Rather than having human fighter, and dwarven fighter you get norse berserker and dwarven trollslayer.Nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02743719179352388875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-90724526457081872882009-03-18T20:58:00.000-05:002009-03-18T20:58:00.000-05:00Damn. Teach me to go to a wine tasting before pos...Damn. <BR/><BR/>Teach me to go to a wine tasting before posting. <BR/><BR/>But, really, how much can I be blamed for confusing <I>Mazes and Minotaurs</I> with <I>Labyrinth Lord</I>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-3530987742578874482009-03-18T20:56:00.000-05:002009-03-18T20:56:00.000-05:00Damn. Teach me to go to a wine tasting before pos...Damn. <BR/><BR/>Teach me to go to a wine tasting before posting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-9173402309214795072009-03-18T20:50:00.000-05:002009-03-18T20:50:00.000-05:00Huh...buddy, I think you may have gotten Labyrinth...Huh...buddy, I think you may have gotten <I>Labyrinth Lord</I> and <I>Mazes and Minotaurs</I> mixed up there...<BR/><BR/>Just a thought.Edsanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11619248696115787815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-68785996562654529822009-03-18T20:38:00.000-05:002009-03-18T20:38:00.000-05:00"In Labyrinth Lord elf, dwarf, and halfing are cla..."In Labyrinth Lord elf, dwarf, and halfing are classes. This fact annoys the people who like to play a certain race but want some more class options. It also annoys people who feel versimilitude is underserved by having all members of a race use the exact same rules. That second group can be wished away by telling them "the rules only apply to adventurers, not typical members of the species".<BR/><BR/>First of all -- WTF? In LABYRINTH LORD, <I>dwarf, elf, and halfling</I> are classes. <BR/><BR/>What. The. Fuck. <BR/><BR/>I mean, if I wanted Tolkienish fantasy, I'd play... The whole attraction of LL over, say OD&D, is the classical greek flavor. I distinctly fail to remember any halflings in Homer.<BR/><BR/>Second -- I don't really see the dichotomy you have proposed. Those who want more PCs options for demihumans have a 99% overlap with those who feel that "race==class" lacks verisimilitude. On which side I firmly sit. <BR/><BR/>But I'm also totally into having race-specific classes, as you have proposed. I sooooo want to play a Dwarven Trapmaker. <BR/><BR/>OTOH, race-specific classes sound rather like <B>work</B>. So it goes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-4073927958020774652009-03-18T19:53:00.000-05:002009-03-18T19:53:00.000-05:00Note that the Dwarf Alchemist could make magical t...Note that the Dwarf Alchemist could make magical toys. Remember that the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain were noted for such.<BR/><BR/>Great ideas as usual, Jeff! :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-32007001790556556552009-03-18T19:52:00.000-05:002009-03-18T19:52:00.000-05:00This idea has been rattling around in my head as w...This idea has been rattling around in my head as well. Having at least two class choices per race would be a nice thing.K. Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623767121412820113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-26501555824270957422009-03-18T17:50:00.000-05:002009-03-18T17:50:00.000-05:00Dragon 109? Cough!Dragon 109? <A HREF="http://drmikessteakdinner.com/2007/07/06/download-dragon-magazine/" REL="nofollow">Cough!</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-17175353447649968752009-03-18T17:33:00.000-05:002009-03-18T17:33:00.000-05:00This is a great idea that neatly sidesteps the who...This is a great idea that neatly sidesteps the whole argument of racial classes. Nicely done.<BR/><BR/>I assume Elven Bakers wear chef hats?thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-9783601815195377532009-03-18T15:56:00.000-05:002009-03-18T15:56:00.000-05:00Paul Crabaugh died years ago, so he may have passe...Paul Crabaugh died years ago, so he may have passed away before reprint rights could be negotiated. Or some idiot at The Dragon/TSR didn't like that his number didn't sync up exactly with the official XP charts.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-43261221996009703152009-03-18T15:50:00.000-05:002009-03-18T15:50:00.000-05:00That's a darn shame...from the way you describe it...That's a darn shame...from the way you describe it it seems "Customized Classes" it so useful it should have been added to the Rules Cyclopedia.Edsanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11619248696115787815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-8011736891744904482009-03-18T15:48:00.000-05:002009-03-18T15:48:00.000-05:00Sadly omitted from the Best ofs, you need the actu...Sadly omitted from the <I>Best ofs</I>, you need the actual issue or the CD-ROMs. Outlaw copies might be at large on the torrents. I dunno. I own a perfectly legit CD-ROM set.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.com