tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post3774437470057570723..comments2024-03-27T22:32:17.055-05:00Comments on Jeffs Gameblog: showing your sourcesJeff Rientshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-16456009234956690692011-07-04T16:52:54.098-05:002011-07-04T16:52:54.098-05:00A great example there from Martin R. Thomas of why...A great example there from Martin R. Thomas of why the OGL is a trap, not some wonderful gift of freedom. It allows you to do nothing that you were not allowed to do before (read it closely, folks) and prevents you doing some very simple and reasonable things. <br /><br />Here's what you can do WITHOUT the OGL:<br /><br />http://www.kenzerco.com/index.php?cPath=25_28<br /><br />To quote Dave Kenzer "A world where one could not reference others’ materials in their product would be a dark and sad place"<br /><br />And here's a quote from the US Library of Congress website:<br /><br />"Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form."Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934827653905274555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-33642823158047168472011-07-04T03:08:17.166-05:002011-07-04T03:08:17.166-05:00I am spending the next 10 days tidying up footnote...I am spending the next 10 days tidying up footnotes and references on my Magnificent Octopus. Citation is how I do my work, chasing citations the essence of history. So, yeah. But keeping the footnotes in any commercial publication is next to impossible, and bibliographies are the first things to be cut. It's silly.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-75816109764996962342011-07-04T02:00:56.216-05:002011-07-04T02:00:56.216-05:00There's an essay (by Sandy Petersen, IIRC) in ...There's an essay (by Sandy Petersen, IIRC) in Schick's "Heroic Worlds" where he talks about this (the whole credit-where-its-due thing), and I always try to take it to heart (see page 1 of Risus ...)<br /><br />Re Encounter Critical and other games where the inspirations are out-of-universe: what Kaiju said. Those on the EC Mailing List (or those who've slogged through the audio commentary) know that while EC itself is mum on the games it's made of, I publicly tip the hat to the inspirations (Arduin, Space Patrol, etc) whenever given a reasonable excuse to.<br /><br />Thanks, Jeff, for the tip on this cool little game, which I hadn't heard of and instantly adore. Though ironically, skipping ahead to the encumbrance rules (which I had to since you called 'em out) I felt slightly disappointed that they were (slightly) more complex than the rules I often use (in the forever-unpublished Russkie fantasy game I was doing with Ed before he passed) but I'm still glad to know they're properly attributed to their inspiration :)S. John Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12284417121877141161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-91233349747499604542011-07-03T23:25:56.591-05:002011-07-03T23:25:56.591-05:00Kaiju: That's a good idea.Kaiju: That's a good idea.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-58188029954267426782011-07-03T23:09:18.585-05:002011-07-03T23:09:18.585-05:00faoladh: In a case like that, it might be helpful ...faoladh: In a case like that, it might be helpful to have a separate "Designer's Notes" document, or a series of webpages or blog entries.Kaijuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184830369889881159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-90081883141898823922011-07-03T19:46:18.084-05:002011-07-03T19:46:18.084-05:00I mostly agree, but there are some exceptions for ...I mostly agree, but there are some exceptions for the sake of art. For instance, <i>Mazes & Minotaurs</i> or <i>Encounter Critical</i> would probably do well to avoid this, since the conceit is that these are games from alternate realities in which those inspirations don't exist. This exception is important to me because that's a similar conceit to what <a href="http://ongoingcampaign.blogspot.com/search/label/WRG%20game" rel="nofollow">I'm doing</a> with the WRG-based game that I'm designing. In reality, I'll be garnering some inspiration from things that have gone before, but the presentation is going to work best if the game doesn't refer to those sources explicitly.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-2651365888148525292011-07-03T14:14:36.635-05:002011-07-03T14:14:36.635-05:00But then someone came along to my site and mention...<i>But then someone came along to my site and mentioned that I was incorrectly (and illegally) mentioning the sources by their copyrighted names, and that it wasn't allowed according to the rules of the Open Game License unless I obtained express permission from the publishers to mention their product names on my site. So, I just got rid of all of those references.</i><br /><br>Sadly, this is correct under the terms of the OGL and since the vast majority of retro-clones use the OGL, they must abide by those terms.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-61835525471519054472011-07-03T13:39:06.673-05:002011-07-03T13:39:06.673-05:00Totally agreed. I remember when I built my first ...Totally agreed. I remember when I built my first campaign website during the 3.0 era, I was posting Open Game Content for my players and others who visited the site, and I felt like I should attribute each feat, prestige class, cleric domain, or spell to the original source, so, for example, after each listing, I would put: "<b>Source: Dynasties & Demagogues</b>" or whatever. I also had the sources listed in my Open Game License, which was properly filled out and kept updated.<br /><br />But then someone came along to my site and mentioned that I was incorrectly (and illegally) mentioning the sources by their copyrighted names, and that it wasn't allowed according to the rules of the Open Game License unless I obtained express permission from the publishers to mention their product names on my site. So, I just got rid of all of those references. <br /><br />Seems extremely silly and short-sighted to me. Like Daniel said up above, I would think that seeing a source listed next to the original content would inspire people to seek out the primary source book. <br /><br />There were a lot of silly things that happened during the 3.0 era.Martin R. Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11672657745232101753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-5907069152096003412011-07-03T11:50:02.111-05:002011-07-03T11:50:02.111-05:00I think a more conversational tone, less "pro...I think a more conversational tone, less "professional" feel to our games would be cool, including being straightforward with sources and inspirations behind rules or ideas. It's a hobby after all, and generally is written from one DM to another.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7652921.post-61188190474841925302011-07-03T11:12:44.187-05:002011-07-03T11:12:44.187-05:00Agreed. If I'm reading an awesome game and par...Agreed. If I'm reading an awesome game and part of it was inspired by this whole other awesome game, I would want to know about it so that maybe I could also by that second awesome game, too.Daniel Deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07427676807959516142noreply@blogger.com